Post by "Redneck" Johnson on Mar 9, 2009 20:39:30 GMT -6
I'm clear that you think the Republican party needs to grow its base, and demographics are changing away from its traditional supporters. But my concern is that whoever is in charge does the correct thing to make the economy solvent and start it growing again- if President Obama came out and said this is what we need to do tomorrow I'd be in full support. I think Obama's current spending plans aren't going to fix the economic problems, just the same as I thought it wouldn't be fixed when Bush pushed his stimulus package through- throwing money (even taxpayer money) doesn't address the root causes of the depression.
I think the keys to restoring the economy (and also reducing the deficit) we have are:
1. Not raise taxes during a recession if it's avoidable, particularly personal income taxes. Everyone gets hurt by this item, but the worst people to hit are the ones who sit in the $250-500K range, as they're typically small businesspeople. When the economy is growing they hire new staff, which creates jobs. If they still have money during a downturn they'll maintain staff. Obama seems to agree with this point, as he isn't pushing to repeal the Bush tax cuts until the recession ends (You can keep things like short-term Capital Gains taxes- I don't generally like them but I also don't have much pity for Wall Street daily traders right now.)
2. Not use taxpayer money to bail out private enterprise. While there needs to be some safety in things like banks to protect individual citizens (and I think raising the FDIC insurance to $250K was a good move), companies that aren't profitable need to be given more incentive to restructure or otherwise change their business model. This means letting certain dinosaurs go extinct, which is an extremely unpopular idea. But to make the economy healthier we can't throw cash at unprofitable companies- they need to fix their business model or exit the marketplace.
3. Use government influence to help the currency retain its value. Shoring up the banking industry by helping cover financially solvent things is a good idea.
4. Manage what resources are available wisely. Don't spend more money than you bring in, and don't rob Peter to pay Paul (as we've done with Social Security).
5. Wait for better things to happen- part of capitalism is cyclical. You have recessions and you have growth. The key is to limit the damage done during recessions and take advantage of market during growth (i.e. pay down the national debt when more revenue is flowing in and have preparations made to last through the next downturn).
The take-home lesson for either party is: America should manage its money wisely. Show how you can do it better than the other side. Have a plan, be optimistic. Don't just sit there and wait for the times to get bad and complain that the party in power is awful- that is partisan bickering at its best and has been going on for the last 12 years. The country doesn't benefit and when any real concerns are raised they're called 'playing politics' and swept under the rug.
This is the solution. I don't think of this as being conservative or liberal. It makes the country financially stronger and helps shorten the duration of a recession. The economy will eventually turn around but oftentimes people are blamed for items that are not their fault- I really think Congress should bear the brunt of economic failure and not the President- the Capital is where the budget is ultimately assembled.
Philosophically there are things going on that I don't particularly like. I think the government is overstepping its bounds and will not help the recovery move along any faster. It draws cries of socialism because they all involve taking assets from one person and giving them to someone else, with the government being the deciding party:
1. Bailing out homeowners who have no hope of paying their mortgage. I don't like the fact that many Americans save carefully, look into what they can afford in a house, and budget to earn it. I was really happy when we bought our home, and I know you felt the same way when you got your first house Geoff. So it really irks me that instead of using my taxes for something useful (funding education, reducing national debt, even paying for a haircut for President Obama is a better use) they'll be applied to the mortgage of someone who has no hope repaying it and will probably default out in 5 years. These people have to face their consequences eventually- I'd rather not throw good money away after bad, especially because it's only letting the irresponsible parties remain that way.
2. Giving tax refunds to people who don't pay taxes. It's buying votes, pure and simple.
3. Wasting taxpayer money on pork. This has been an issue that both sides have been guilty of for a long time, and it doesn't appear that either is going to fix it anytime soon. We should be paying for local projects with local funds (i.e. state highway construction with state funds, country roads with county funds), and shift impetus for taxing this item away from the national level to the local level. It really irks me that this kind of thing can be prevalent, and that states with sneakier representatives grab a bigger portion of the pie.
Obama's getting hammered by conservative pundits for all three items. I'm not sure he's really responsible for any of them, but his party sure is. The Republicans are just as guilty in the last one- they've pushed their share of pork through.
The Republicans are worried about the same demographic issues that Geoff is raising, which is why they don't want to step in line with Rush Limbaugh is saying. They want to be sure they have public opinion on their side before they criticize Obama and are watching to see what the economy does. This is a pretty crappy display of leadership, which is why I don't see them stepping into a position of strength if Obama's reforms don't work- they're not even trying to present an idea or position.
I think the keys to restoring the economy (and also reducing the deficit) we have are:
1. Not raise taxes during a recession if it's avoidable, particularly personal income taxes. Everyone gets hurt by this item, but the worst people to hit are the ones who sit in the $250-500K range, as they're typically small businesspeople. When the economy is growing they hire new staff, which creates jobs. If they still have money during a downturn they'll maintain staff. Obama seems to agree with this point, as he isn't pushing to repeal the Bush tax cuts until the recession ends (You can keep things like short-term Capital Gains taxes- I don't generally like them but I also don't have much pity for Wall Street daily traders right now.)
2. Not use taxpayer money to bail out private enterprise. While there needs to be some safety in things like banks to protect individual citizens (and I think raising the FDIC insurance to $250K was a good move), companies that aren't profitable need to be given more incentive to restructure or otherwise change their business model. This means letting certain dinosaurs go extinct, which is an extremely unpopular idea. But to make the economy healthier we can't throw cash at unprofitable companies- they need to fix their business model or exit the marketplace.
3. Use government influence to help the currency retain its value. Shoring up the banking industry by helping cover financially solvent things is a good idea.
4. Manage what resources are available wisely. Don't spend more money than you bring in, and don't rob Peter to pay Paul (as we've done with Social Security).
5. Wait for better things to happen- part of capitalism is cyclical. You have recessions and you have growth. The key is to limit the damage done during recessions and take advantage of market during growth (i.e. pay down the national debt when more revenue is flowing in and have preparations made to last through the next downturn).
The take-home lesson for either party is: America should manage its money wisely. Show how you can do it better than the other side. Have a plan, be optimistic. Don't just sit there and wait for the times to get bad and complain that the party in power is awful- that is partisan bickering at its best and has been going on for the last 12 years. The country doesn't benefit and when any real concerns are raised they're called 'playing politics' and swept under the rug.
This is the solution. I don't think of this as being conservative or liberal. It makes the country financially stronger and helps shorten the duration of a recession. The economy will eventually turn around but oftentimes people are blamed for items that are not their fault- I really think Congress should bear the brunt of economic failure and not the President- the Capital is where the budget is ultimately assembled.
Philosophically there are things going on that I don't particularly like. I think the government is overstepping its bounds and will not help the recovery move along any faster. It draws cries of socialism because they all involve taking assets from one person and giving them to someone else, with the government being the deciding party:
1. Bailing out homeowners who have no hope of paying their mortgage. I don't like the fact that many Americans save carefully, look into what they can afford in a house, and budget to earn it. I was really happy when we bought our home, and I know you felt the same way when you got your first house Geoff. So it really irks me that instead of using my taxes for something useful (funding education, reducing national debt, even paying for a haircut for President Obama is a better use) they'll be applied to the mortgage of someone who has no hope repaying it and will probably default out in 5 years. These people have to face their consequences eventually- I'd rather not throw good money away after bad, especially because it's only letting the irresponsible parties remain that way.
2. Giving tax refunds to people who don't pay taxes. It's buying votes, pure and simple.
3. Wasting taxpayer money on pork. This has been an issue that both sides have been guilty of for a long time, and it doesn't appear that either is going to fix it anytime soon. We should be paying for local projects with local funds (i.e. state highway construction with state funds, country roads with county funds), and shift impetus for taxing this item away from the national level to the local level. It really irks me that this kind of thing can be prevalent, and that states with sneakier representatives grab a bigger portion of the pie.
Obama's getting hammered by conservative pundits for all three items. I'm not sure he's really responsible for any of them, but his party sure is. The Republicans are just as guilty in the last one- they've pushed their share of pork through.
The Republicans are worried about the same demographic issues that Geoff is raising, which is why they don't want to step in line with Rush Limbaugh is saying. They want to be sure they have public opinion on their side before they criticize Obama and are watching to see what the economy does. This is a pretty crappy display of leadership, which is why I don't see them stepping into a position of strength if Obama's reforms don't work- they're not even trying to present an idea or position.
