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Post by fatmenace on Dec 7, 2013 13:05:19 GMT -6
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Post by gk on Dec 26, 2013 19:48:21 GMT -6
So I just got done watching the one where Jesse realizes that Walt poisoned Brock. However, I'm a bit confused as to how he came about that realization. I get that he realized that he had been lifted by Saul's guy with regards to the weed and therefore, probably the ricin as well. But Jesse was told that it wasn't ricin, but the valley flower.
Maybe there's something I'm missing, or some other realization that Jesse had that will become clear in an episode or two, but that was confusing for me.
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Post by fatmenace on Dec 27, 2013 7:15:33 GMT -6
This was probably the most hotly debated scene on BB, and that's saying something. At least on the forums I visited. If you want a clean, logical explanation laid out for you, I'll go ahead and give you a spoiler and tell you that never happens. The explanation below is kind of where I stand. By this season, Jesse has been so manipulated by Walt it would take a decade of therapy to get his mind right. It's not a neatly packaged explanation and even in the comments people aren't buying it. But...Walt immediately used the poisoning to get Jesse back on his side against Gus. I just think there were too many suspicions whirling around in Jesse's head. At some point the dots connected. movies.stackexchange.com/questions/13466/how-does-jesse-connect-the-dots-in-s05e11 |
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Post by fatmenace on Dec 27, 2013 7:15:50 GMT -6
Keep logging your thoughts too.
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Post by mayor on Dec 27, 2013 8:36:19 GMT -6
Yeah, I just had to kind of go along with this. Not the strongest point in the show, but I'm ok with that.
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Post by gk on Dec 29, 2013 14:47:07 GMT -6
And scene.
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Post by gk on Dec 29, 2013 15:03:39 GMT -6
Wow, so here are some initial, first-reaction unfiltered thoughts. I should also add a caveat we plowed through the last 5 episodes all at once and it was 3am by the time we finished so I may have missed much of the nuance. For instance, it wasn't until after the end of the episode did I understand what Walt was doing at the end of "Ozymandias."
* I'm trying to decide if it wrapped up too neatly, or if it was sufficiently messy. On the one hand, all the physical threats to the Whites were removed, and we're supposed to assume that Walt Jr. obtains the $9 million on his next birthday (hopefully he'll share some of that with his younger sister). Jesse escapes his physical prison and the emotional prison (NICELY DONE TEAM ALLEGORY!). That's quite tidy. Then again, Hank's dead and Skyler and Marie will probably never be sisters again.
* Speaking of Hank, I was a bit bummed when he died. Not because he's allegedly a "good guy" but that they didn't give him enough time to "break bad" himself. I mean, he was just starting to "break bad." He broke a little bit bad. I wanted to see him break more bad. Break worse one might say. I was anticipating him really going to the dark side to convict Walt. On the flip side....
* Steph and I disagree about Hank's acumen as an agent. She thinks he's amazing because he's dogged and unceasing. I say he's kind of bad at his job because he doesn't tell anyone about his ongoing investigation, brings Jesse to the money site, and tries to record Skyler when he first confronts her.
* Why did Walt ditch using fulminated mercury? Seems like that worked 100% of the time. I would have gone with fulminated mercury. I mean, he had like 9 months or whatever by himself in that cabin. I feel the same way about the ricin. Could have gotten a lot more use out of that.
* I was wondering when they'd bring back the Jane-dying event. That was the moment when I realized where the show (and Walt) was going, when he watched Jane die when all he had to do was turn her over. That was also probably when I really, truly became invested in the show.
* It's still weird to me that Walt didn't try the whole "it wasn't ricin!" explanation to Jesse regarding Brock's poisoning.
Those are some initial thoughts. I'm going to go back and read the other BB thread to visit yall's blow by blow commentary.
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Post by gk on Dec 29, 2013 15:14:24 GMT -6
Couple more:
* I was really glad they tied back in to Grey Matter. Seems like the genesis of Walt's unhinging.
* I'm trying to decide if I never want to watch it again, or rewatch the first couple seasons now while the last couple are fresh.
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Post by fatmenace on Dec 29, 2013 15:27:58 GMT -6
It's mostly 'wow, omg, can you believe that'?
I think Hank was a great investigator, but the betrayal of Heisenberg being Walt made him snap. He wasn't remotely thinking clearly. I'm sad that Gomez died.
Glad you enjoyed it. I binge watched the first three seasons, then watched the last three regular. It's more fun to binge watch, but this show was so superbly written I enjoyed letting each episode digest for a week, and reading the reviews of smart people. There was a lot to take in.
Initial thoughts on where it might rank historically?
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Post by gk on Dec 29, 2013 15:34:23 GMT -6
Not sure I'm qualified to comment. The only three series like this I've watched are The Wire, Breaking Bad, and Six Feet Under. And it's been a while since I've watched the Wire. I've never watched the Sopranos, Mad Men, Deadwood, or any of those. I think it might have been "better" than the Wire. But I enjoyed the Wire's "deep dives" into systems and structures more. To that end, I was riveted when Breaking Bad delved into Madrigal Electromotive, but they only scratched the surface - and Lydia was a sort of ridiculous character. I wanted to know more about the European market. There wasn't enough corruption in Breaking Bad for my liking. |
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Post by fatmenace on Dec 29, 2013 15:44:03 GMT -6
Start with Deadwood, only because it's shorter. Three seasons, but the last season they were in a constant state of "will we be cancelled or not?" So there's a weird vibe. They were cancelled, so the ending was not really series finale-ish. But the first two seasons were epic.
Add The Shield to your list as well. BB and The Shield are the only two shows that I thought got stronger and didn't falter. The Sopranos is well deserved of every accolade and the first four seasons are just amazing. Sort of drifted after that, but even adrift is was one of the best things ever on television. Adam's the resident Man Men expert. I think it's a great show, smart, well acted, etc...it's just different. Took me a while to get into it. Not really an action show, character driven.
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