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Post by gk on May 8, 2009 22:50:34 GMT -6
Just what we all want to talk about on Friday night. But I just watched Frontline: The War Briefing and I've had an entire bottle of red wine (yeah?!?! so what?) by myself - Steph was out for the night.
Anyway, here's the question:
We're pretty much fucked as far as Afghanistan/Pakistan goes, right? I mean, totally 100% no-way-out, fucked.
Iraq v. 2.0 is going to look like the first Iraq war compared to the shitstorm that is Afghanistan.
Please talk me down from the ledge and tell me that, no, the Taliban won't acquire Pakistan's nukes and there is a road map to victory in Afghanistan.
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Post by fatmenace on May 8, 2009 23:45:27 GMT -6
There IS a road map to victory in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan: Withdraw immediately and stay out completely.
By becoming interventionists (Obama is now one, thanks to him pushing a Pakistani war), Clinton, Bush and Obama have made us isolated from the rest of the world. Bush and Cheney more so, but all three have proven themselves incompetent in areas of wars. I find it funny that people call Ron Paul an isolationist, especially Republicans. Bush's policies have completely isolated us from the rest of the world.
But to answer your question, yes, we are completely f'ed.
I think if Obama's administration has proven one thing, it's that we have a one party system in this country. All the Presidents have their marching orders, but they don't come from the American people.
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Post by grubbi on May 9, 2009 13:22:14 GMT -6
Obviously, the USA did not learn anything when the Soviets were in Afghanistan. The people fight among themselves until someone comes along that they can band together to fight against. They will use guerrilla warfare, hit and run ("It's better to fight and run away to live to fight another day"). Once the common enemy is gone then they go back to fighting each other.
The area is made up of a bunch of regional tribal leaders. Only a strong military governance can even come close to holding its own there. Much of the outlands have never been under any government authority.
You can not be talked down from the ledge. In fact you will be joined by others. There is no road map, not any that the US can follow. And not in any sense of what we consider "victory". I higher suspect it is only a matter of time, if not all ready, that the Taliban or any other terrorist will get their hands on a nuke and blow themselves to Allah.
It's not that the presidents have proven themselves incompetent in areas of war but more in the areas of culture and the mindsets of these people. This is not conventional warfare like WWII. We can not understand why someone would strap a bomb to themselves and blow themselves and others to bits. These people are willing to die for their "cause" because they will be "rewarded" for it. They have a "reason" to fight and will not stop. The only way is to totally and utterly annihilate that thinking from their minds and no amount of bombs or bullets will do that. Only the complete elimination of the people themselves. And that is not likely to happen.... people die easy, ideas not so.
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Post by fatmenace on May 9, 2009 13:44:37 GMT -6
You could argue that the only reason those people take up arms against us is because we interfere in their countries. After reading Confessions of an Economic Hitman, I don't know how America hasn't been nuked to Kingdom Come yet. If we want to take out violence against the perpetrators of "terror" and 9/11 we march to Crawford and wherever Cheney is hiding and put them on trial.
We're following the exact same plan Nazi Germany did. A staged terror attack that is then blamed on a group of people that the country already fears. For Germany, it was the communists. For the US, it was brown skinned people. Followed immediately by the elected officials passing sweeping bills to take away our rights, institute national ID cards, take away our guns (Bush didn't do much here, but Obama and Holder will take up the flag). It wasn't long before you saw the military in their streets, and we're already seeing it here (hello Tennessee!). This isn't even getting into the national youth army or any of the other things. I won't even mention why FEMA has militarized camps set up. I didn't realize natural disaster refugees needed to be controlled by armed forces.
Obama has embraced all of Bush's laws and orders that take away our rights. He's doing the exact same thing that Bush did: dangle the single issue carrots in front of everyone's faces, and take away their rights behind their back. For Bush it was gun rights and faith based initiative stuff. For Obama it's stem cells and the environment. Give the people what they want and they'll roll over and play dead.
I haven't even gotten into the privately owned, for profit Federal Reserve and how we've been robbed blind.
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Post by fatmenace on May 9, 2009 13:56:01 GMT -6
I mean, did nobody read the MIAC report from Missouri??? I'm sure most of you will roll your eyes and mock me for not towing the company line about 9/11, but whatever. The phrases "global economic system" and "global governance" are no longer just from conspiracy nuts. They're coming straight out of the mouths of world leaders, including our own. The dollar HAS to crash so we can move to a new currency.
But we deserve everything that's coming in the next 12 months. We CHOSE not to rise up against the leaders of this nation, going back to the last 100 years. We bought in to the two party nonsense. Shame on us.
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Post by fatmenace on May 9, 2009 13:56:36 GMT -6
And shame on Krall for bringing this up. Let us concentrate on the demise of the Yankees.
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Post by fatmenace on May 9, 2009 13:58:56 GMT -6
Also, the Bush administration should be put on a Nuremberg type trial for war crimes.
That's all.
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Post by gk on Aug 1, 2010 9:51:22 GMT -6
Anyway, here's the question: We're pretty much f**ked as far as Afghanistan/Pakistan goes, right? I mean, totally 100% no-way-out, f**ked. Bump?
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Post by fatmenace on Aug 2, 2010 18:59:20 GMT -6
Well July was the deadliest month yet for U.S. soldiers. And of course Obama has expanded the war into Pakistan, plus it appears some sort of attack on Iran is imminent.
If only we wouldn't have elected Bush to a third term, imagine all of the change Obama could have brought to this nation!
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