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Post by gk on Sept 1, 2009 14:08:26 GMT -6
So people (notably Simmons) are jumping on David Kahn for screwing up this Ricky Rubio thing. While I don't really understand the convoluted rules of foreign players being drafted by the NBA, it seems to me that the T-wolves made out pretty good.
Rubio is saying he'll come in two years while developing his game. Meanwhile the T-wolves don't have to pay him (right?) and can develop the other PG they drafted, Johnny Flynn. If Flynn works out, that's great. They can trade the rights to Rubio or figure out a way to pair the two. If not, in two years they'll have a free draft pick in Rubio, who will be only 20. It's not like the T-wolves were going to compete for a championship this year. So what's wrong with letting someone else pay Rubio's paycheck for a couple years?
I'm probably missing a key element in here. Something like Rubio will still be closer to free agency when he arrives, or the T-wolves DO have to pay his salary, or Rubio might not come over in two years if he's still under control of the Timberwolves. But barring those situations, doesn't this work out for the Wolves in the long run?
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Post by gk on Sept 1, 2009 16:10:43 GMT -6
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Post by finkle on Sept 1, 2009 16:14:32 GMT -6
makes sense to me, geoff.....
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Post by fatmenace on Sept 1, 2009 22:42:55 GMT -6
It was a dumb pick because he made it very clear he wouldn't play for them, but they picked him anyway. Like Francis and Vancouver. There were other players they could have drafted that would have helped their team out over the next few years instead. They knew it was a risk because they drafted several other PGs as well.
He'll never play for them. Ever.
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Post by gk on Sept 2, 2009 9:50:15 GMT -6
I guess a few scenarios could happen:
1) Rubio looks great and develops and decides he doesn't want to play for the T-wolves. In such an instance, couldn't the Wolves then trade him for another high draft pick and a stash of other stuff? You mention the Steve Francis thing. Vancouver was able to turn Steve Francis into first and second round picks and a slew of other players (whether any of them are any good or not is beside the point).
2) Rubio looks great and develops and (noting the T-wolves have a pretty nice nucleus of Love, Jefferson, Corey Brewer and maybe even Johnny Flynn and decides he wants to be a part of that team. In such an instance he will have extended his free agent clock and Minnesota will have let someone else pay his salary while he develops.
3) Rubio looks bad and doesn't develop. Well in that case the joke's on everyone (except me, who is on record saying the kid is probably mostly hype) including Simmons and it's just as well because, again, someone else will have been paying his salary and they essentially had an extra roster spot for a couple years. Even in such an instance the Wolves might be able to trade him for a useful part.
Obviously the Wolves didn't want this to happen, but I could easily see this turning out better than people think. And certainly Simmons looks like a huge douchebag for thumping his chest so soon after the announcement. I mean, BS was Rubio's biggest proponent. What, he wouldn't have taken him at #5? BS asserts that he was "half-joking" about the Minnesota GM thing but that's clearly bull since he's railing on David Kahn for not getting Rubio - like Kahn has anything to do with in - and like Simmons could have persuaded Rubio. And as it turns out, picking Flynn was the *right* move - or at least defensible, b/c now they have a young PG they can develop on their own for two years (if you look at their roster, their other two PGs are Bobby Brown and Chucky Atkins).
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Post by fatmenace on Sept 3, 2009 9:06:40 GMT -6
According to Christ Sheridan, Rubio is going to play in Europe for the next three years developing himself, then become a free agent in 2012. Minn should have taken Curry at the five pick and left Rubio alone. Curry and Flynn would be a great duo to build around.
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Post by gk on Sept 3, 2009 9:31:54 GMT -6
But he'll still be property of the Timberwolves. They can still trade his rights. And in such an instance he wouldn't be a true free agent until he's 26(!). If you're the wolves, would you rather have Rubio until he's 23 or 26? True, he'll probably bolt either way, but at least under this scenario the Wolves are probably getting his best years before he leaves and makes "real" money in NY/LA/etc.
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Post by fatmenace on Sept 8, 2009 16:18:50 GMT -6
Chad Ford has some interesting things to say about Rubio on yesterday's Simmons podcast.
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Post by gk on Sept 8, 2009 16:50:13 GMT -6
Just listened to it. It would be nice if BS had someone on that didn't agree with him. There were so many logical inconsistency I almost had an anyurism while listening to it. So the Wolves are morons for wanting two talented point guards, but OKC would have been brilliant? Because Westbrook plays a "different style" of point guard?? Well, I don't know much about Johnny Flynn but I'm guessing he also plays a different style than Rubio. And how is taking two players at the same position "overthinking" it? Seems like "underthinking" it to me. And a general philosophy in all sports that I agree with: take the best available no matter what. If Kahn thought Flynn was better than Curry, then go with Flynn. Maybe Curry will be better, maybe not, but it doesn't make the idea of drafting the best available talent dumb. The Browns drafted two WRs in the second round this past year. I love that idea. Put them on the same playing field and make them compete. The Cowboys took two running backs. If just one turns into a quality player, then you're beating the odds. (and again, I'm on record suggesting Rubio is mostly hype). I think the odds are at best 50/50 on either Flynn, Rubio or any other draft pick. So you might as well stack the odds in your favor that you get one good point guard.
As such, I'm sticking with my 3 above scenarios.
I guess I don't really understand the whole "sit out for 3 years and sign a max deal" scenario. Does that means he can sign with anyone for max money or sign with just the T-wolves for max money?
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Post by fatmenace on Sept 8, 2009 18:07:19 GMT -6
I understand about the competition thing. My problem is that Rubio's people specifically stated they didn't want to go to Minnesota. Why draft him and bring this headache on yourself?
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Post by gk on Oct 30, 2009 19:58:24 GMT -6
Two games in, Johnny Flynn looks pretty good. Just to dredge this conversation up.
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Post by fatmenace on Oct 30, 2009 22:57:28 GMT -6
Yes he is. Which is why I thought they should have used the other pick on Curry. Although I think Rubio would be the better player, if they knew they were gonna take Flynn, end the Rubio romance and draft a scorer.
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Post by gk on Nov 16, 2009 10:34:47 GMT -6
Did I say he looks good? Because I meant he looks really, really bad.
Timberwolves are morons.
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